A scene from the Field of Blackbirds
by Uros Predic, 20th Century Serbian realist painter
Stavros, who writes a blog called My Greek Odyssey which I very much enjoy reading, has posted the YouTube clip below on his blog. Like many of his fellow Greek bloggers, Stavros supports the Serbian position, and has read far more about the history of the region than I have.
The clip below is an interview with retired Canadian Major-General MacKenzie. I am not sure what to make of him. It annoys me that he is wrong about Resolution 1244 and this makes me wonder what else he is wrong about and how independent he is. Resolution 1244, passed by the UN Security Council in 1999, refers to Yugoslavia, not Serbia as the Major-General says. Serbia and Montenegro declared their own independence from Yugoslavia in 2003, at which point Yugoslavia ceased to exist. Montenegro declared its independence from Serbia later in June 2006, upon which event the Serbian President sent a message of congratulation wishing the people of Montenegro “peace, stability and overall prosperity”.
I do not understand how can you rely on a resolution which refers to a state which does not even exist any longer. Nor do I understand why it is OK for Serbia to declare independence (but not for Kosovo), nor why Serbia congratulates Montenegro on its own independence, but the independence of Kosovo sparks violence and outrage. How, too, is it that objectors say Kosovo is too small to be economically viable, when Montenegro is less than half its size?
Major-General MacKenzie refers to 156 Serbian Orthodox monasteries having been destroyed by the ethnic Albians in Kosovo. Here is a link to a sink with details and pictures of four.:
http://www.kosovo.net/esvmarko.html.
They make sad viewing. Nothing justifies the destruction, the wanton destruction, of ancient symbols of faith.
He also makes a comparison with Israel and Jerusalem which is worth investigating. The heart of the Serbian nation is buried in the bloody battlefields of Kosovo Pole, just outside Pristina, now in Kosovo. “Pole” means “battlefield” but the battlefield is also called the Field of Blackbirds – and is where Serbians were slaughtered by Ottoman soldiers in 1389, regaining control of the area only more than five hundred years later during the First World War. The most detailed accounts of the battle I could find are available here and repeats what seems to be historical consensus which is that the Serbian forces were ethnically mixed, including amongst others Albanians and Bosnians. Nevertheless, the battle has acquired an enormous significance in the minds of the Serbian nation. It represents the clash of Christian and Muslim civilisations, which Serbians insist is mirrored in the battle over Kosovo today. I begin to understand the strength of feeling though feel more hopeless about a solution when the problem begins to seem as intractable as any other clash of civilisations.
Researching Major-General MacKenzie’s background (I rarely take anything on trust) threw up unsavoury allegations against him which refuse to go away, in much the same way as the allegations about Hashim Thaci litter the internet. I doubt I will ever get to the bottom of the truth about the personalities involved. But it seems to me that this is about Christians and Muslims and we kid ourselves if we see it in any other light.
More
A more nationalistic account of the 1389 battle here:
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/bookstore/kosovo/kosovo19.htm
And, from the same site, a translation of the epic story of the Maid of Kosovo:
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/bookstore/kosovo/kosovo16.htm
14 comments
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February 25, 2008 at 1:52 am
Stavros
M,
It is not just about Christians versus Muslims, as I will soon point out in a future post, though it is definitely about history as you point out in this post. I am not unsympathetic to the plight of moderate Albanians who have strong ties to Kosovo. BTW, the allegations against MacKenzie were investigated by the Canadian government and deemed to be unfounded.
Many Albanians and Bosnians were Christians before they converted in large numbers during the Ottoman occupation. Some retained their Catholic and Orthodox faith. Many Albanian Orthodox Christians played very prominent roles in the Greek War of Independence. They were called Arvanites.
It’s all very complex and like you I am learning. The difference between you and I and our fellow citizens in our respective countries is that we are asking questions while they are not.
February 25, 2008 at 8:46 am
adifferentvoice
Stavros,
I look forward to your post, but will need some convincing. I’ve added links to another site I’ve just found which is full of information about Kosovo but seems intent on confirming that the problem is a (historically) perceived clash of civilisations.
I know that the allegations about MacKenzie were investigated and deemed to be unfounded. But what does that mean? It means several things. That people will stoop very low to discredit the opposition (which possibility applies equally to Thaci who has not had the benefit of a UN investigation to exonerate him) or that it was not possible to prove the allegations (50 000 such allegations were made in the UK last year but only 600 resulted in a conviction). This possibility, too, presumably applies to Thaci. My point was that if we believe that everything bad said about those we like/agree with is untrue, and everything bad said about those we do not like/disagree with is true, then we risk losing the truth…
Moderate people are usually in the minority, but usually have their voices drowned out by extremists. I would imagine this applies equally to the Serbs, and the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. Just as it often applies on blogs :). The moderate majority need to keep on blogging, and speaking!!
February 28, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Suzana
Let’s compare number of Kosovo Albanians after the WWII.with 2,000,000 and ask logical question: From were and how did they get into Serbian teritory?
Why are they so exited of getting “their own country” since they have Albania? They call themselves Albanians? They go under Albanian flag. They speak Albanian ….and all that in foreign country – Serbia.
Are we are talking illegals here? Oh, yes. Did West just award these narco-smugler oriented iligals with brand new country? Yes, again. But way?
Well, Justice is not in their best interest, that’s for sure. Nor they really care about bunch of proven criminals as per Interpol’s warrants (Thachi). Consequences going to devastate the World but primarily Europe.
For Serbia is late now there is no help. Don’t forget: Serbians stood 500 years against the same Ottomans to protect themselves and the rest of Europe. Despite, Turks came, not ONCE but TWICE all the way to Vienna.
And why is that important nowadays?
We have 10,000,000 people of Muslim religion in Europe. They have all of a sudden 3 separate countries, legal entities in Europe with obvious tendencies. Out of blue! Let’s put two and two and guess: What is next?
Are Europeans that stupid or are Americans that clever?
Where is this World going?
February 29, 2008 at 12:04 pm
adifferentvoice
Suzanna, thank for your comment. Are you Serbian? You ask lots of questions, and I’m not sure if you know the answer already. It sounds as if you think you do, and you do not relish the idea of a majority Muslim state within Europe.
The possibility of a majority Muslim state which is fully democratic, lives up to the ambitions of the Council of Europe particularly in the area of minority protection and the treatment of women, meets the demanding requirements for EU membership, and lives alongside its majority Christian neighbours in friendship and peace, is an ideal that is worth aspiring to, I think.
But others will call me naive and laugh at my idealism. For them the final section of what begins as a straightforward account of the historical movements of people in the Kosovo region is a more likely outcome. [http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/kosovohistory.html]. I imagine you agree.
February 29, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Suzana
Thank you for your response.
In terms to the “fully democratic” formations…..see in Europe we already have existing countries with existing borders. As well as International Law that is very clear in regards of any changes of International borders.
And we have selectively implemented Resolution 1244 used to create a situation on the ground that is completely contrary to the legal status of Kosovo. Instead of creating conditions for the affirmation of multiethnic Kosovo, constant violence against Serbs was tolerated.
And we have Albanian minority group combined with Albanian illegal immigrants taking over territory of sovereign country. How democratic that could be?
Disregarding International Law has nothing much to do with being Serbian or not.
February 29, 2008 at 4:55 pm
adifferentvoice
International law? Mmm. We could argue about that and several of the other things you say. I think resolution 1244 is no longer relevant to the situation on the ground – because it related to Yugoslavia which no longer exists since Serbia declared independence from it … I think that people (yes, even the Scots) should be allowed to secede if an overwhelming majority of them want to and that international law provides for self-determination which – in limited circumstances, I agree – can be used to sanction secession. I don’t agree with what you say about Kosovo being a minority Albanian, or made up of Albanian immigrants: I think that is factually inaccurate. But I’m not in the mood for a fight, Suzana, and I sense we’re never going to agree. Though I’m happy to read any factual/historical accounts or accounts of international law that back up what you say.
March 3, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Suzana
“I think resolution 1244 is no longer relevant to the situation on the ground – because it related to Yugoslavia which no longer exists since Serbia declared independence from it”
My Answer:
– De facto Serbia never declared independence from Yugoslavia nor that would be in Serbia’s best interest. You probably meant Slovenia and Croatia? Being traditionally connected to Germany during few last Wars Slovenians and Croats had big support and they succeeded to break country into the peaces. But it’s raising question how much you really know about European regional politics?
– So far Scots would have to declare and prove status of the oppressed colony in order to get rid of “foreign colonial power” if any there….That would be interesting….-
About Albanians being Albanians but not minority in foreign country, I have no comment – there is no logic into it so we have luck of basic information as well as facts. But for your reference you may try this numbers in attached article about Albanian Immigration from the Italian source:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=OKEal7FHClUC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=number+of+albanians+in+kosovo+after+ww&source=web&ots=4-R12Gtiiq&sig=PbeEIz8L-TVSrajuZ4cnB_946xA&hl=en
March 3, 2008 at 3:50 pm
adifferentvoice
(reference independence of Serbia) No, I meant Serbia. The Union of Serbia and Montenegro was formed on Feb 4th 2003 and officially abolished the name Yugoslavia. On June 3rd 2006 Montenegro declared its independence from the Union, and on June 5th Serbia did the same.
Interesting link to statistics on ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. It does not support your point one bit, however. It shows that ethnic Albanians have been in Kosovo a very long time, and that they are prolific – they have a very high fertility/birth rate. Something that most European countries would give their eye teeth for, so presumably not something to criticise them for?
March 4, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Suzana
http://blog.b92.net/text/2245/Too%20little%20and%20probably%20too%20late%E2%80%A6/
March 4, 2008 at 5:18 pm
adifferentvoice
Suzanna, thank you for the link above to a blog written by a British man living in Serbia. It was an interesting post (though I don’t agree with what he says about the UN resolution which – I repeat – refers only to the territorial integrity of Yugoslavia, not Serbia) and I liked reading the range of discussions afterwards. I’ll keep on reading it. May I refer anybody interested to the interview linked to at the end of the comments on that blog [and here: http://nation-building.blogspot.com/2008/02/interview-with-peter-feith.html. ] The interview is with the EU-appointed overseer of Kosovo, a Dutchman, Peter Feith, and deals with the balance of power between the US and the EU and sovereign Kosovo. Much is made of the minority protection of the ethnic Serbs living within the new state.
March 5, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Suzana
We all believe what we wish to believe, humanitarian affairs, fairytales, CNN, Santa Claus…nothing wrong about that.
Try this:
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/chomintyug.htm
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20000314.htm
March 5, 2008 at 6:47 pm
adifferentvoice
Suzanna,
You could try this …
http://www.glypx.com/BalkanWitness/Chomsky-NewStatesman.htm
and especially this …
http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2006/06/chomsky_bambooz.html
Both links deal with what Chomsky (whose writings I have in the past enjoyed) has to say about Kosovo.
As I’ve said before, I will happily read anything that you think contributes to the debate over the independence of Kosovo. But I am very unlikely to take it at face value and will probably research the background of the writer and read any critics too. And then I’ll make up my mind.
March 6, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Suzana
Well, researching for credibility should rather include official sites:
http://www.chomsky.info/interviews.htm
then some anonymous “put together WEB” with Watson’s, Burbe’s and Kamm’s opposition with entirely false statements.
Chomsky who is probably the most famous alive critical thinker and Political Philosopher is a “liar” according to such a “good sources”,
probably same as Dr. Markenstein UN Pathologist (he did Racak, and did count the bodies, not Burbe), or UN General MacKenzie or many others
who’ve been in Kosovo. I was there too.
OK. Great.
Let’s say: For the best for the World we should just go with the herd and ignore such a bad people. They could be pathological liars and with no credibility.
“The herd knows the best”.
I think: Being uninformed is way better then being rotten bad informed.
And BTW: no one cares what you are going to think about Kosovo, or me. This is not about personal positioning. It’s about Justice.
For Kosovo it’s late now. For the rest of the World is just a beginning.
March 6, 2008 at 7:20 pm
adifferentvoice
Suzanna, thanks for your hints on how to check someone’s credibility. I’ll take that on board … It’s a massive fault of mine, lack of respect. You are right, Chomsky is famous, highly regarded, has published endless books and therefore must be right. Or not. It all depends.
You, however, are defintely right about one thing. The world doesn’t care much what I think, or what you think, and the deed is done. I care what I think, though, and so will carry on turning over stones to see what’s hiding underneath.
I tried to find out more about your Dr Markenstein, but couldn’t find any reference to him. Is that the correct spelling? I did find this site about Racak which says pretty much the same as Wikipedia about the killings in the village.
http://kosovo.terapad.com/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.qlyhlvismugyljbn
I expect you’ve already seen similar sites. If you have a link to info. about Dr Markenstein, do let me know. When you say you “were there too”, do you mean in Kosovo, or in Racak?